Transcript: Cuban Urban Music
>> Howard Spring: Hilario, thanks so much for doing this. Can we start off a little bit by you talking about yourself? You know where you’re from? What you – what kind of music you learnt? Like anything you think is.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: Important.
>> Hilario Duran: Yes. I was born in Havana, Cuba in 1953. I don’t have to say my age you know that it’s, it’s funny because I – one day they ask, they ask [foreign language] they’re saying how old you? I have to say I’m born in 19 – 1940 dot com. [inaudible] that’s what a joke at that. So yes, I am from Havana Cuba. I started – what I can is I started the music in my life came like naturally since I was a little kid. In my, in my home back in Cuba my – they were, they were playing music all the time. My, my grandfather Armando Montes he has a huge collection of music on disc. And vinyl – he has a big collection of vinyl records with all kind of music. With classical music, from jazz to Cuban music and I start – I started listening all kind of music since I, since I was a kid. And I start playing piano by ear. They, they bought a piano for my sister because at that time there was – it was a fashion that only girls should learn piano and stuff. So they bought, they bought a piano. And I remember when they brought the piano in my home. There was — I remember it was upright white piano. I just fall in love with that thing with the instrument. And so as soon they bought it they put in the living room. I went up to start getting sound out of this instrument. With one finger like that. And start, I start playing by ear. I start playing . Tried to reproduce everything I hear on the radio and the TV. And well but before, before that – a little bit before that I remember was my mother, she, she told me a story that I – because I was in a Catholic school. A Catholic school there. On the Catholic school the [inaudible] they have in Havana all over of the cities Saint John Bosco the Catholic school. I don’t know if you hear about this. And they, they used to have the choir singing really just music every day in the church of the school. So I remember my mom she bought the little piano with I don’t know eight keys, seven, but a little, little piano toy and I – my mother she told me that I was inside this room and she started listening all the music. I was playing all the music with one, one finger. The music that they used to sing in the church. And she was [inaudible]. She said oh my God this is – what’s this doing this little kid? So I was playing all this chant, the religious chant with, with, with the toy. So after when they brought finally the real piano to my home, I just wanted to play piano all day. I don’t want to play ball, baseball or be in the street playing with other kids. I just want, I just want to play piano all day. And so my mom she has to, she [inaudible] I love the piano for me. So because I don’t want to, I don’t want to do anything else just play piano. So, so later on they my parent they, they start a few teachers, the piano teacher music teachers in town. And so I remember, I remember that I put – one teacher was the one in my neighbourhood. Was called [foreign language] that was the aunt of a – she was a local piano teacher in, in the neighbour, the neighbourhood. And she was the – she was the aunt, the aunt of the, the great [inaudible] player director [foreign language], [inaudible] so she has the – she has in her house a few kids from the neighbourhood teaching piano. So I started with her when I was – for me was great because she started teaching me classical music from the beginning until I think I was with her about maybe two years or a little more until she, she called my mom and say I was – she was at a point that I, I – she couldn’t teach me anymore because I needed to go the national conservatory of music school to properly learn how to play piano with the [inaudible] you know staff. And that’s, that’s why she brought me to the national conservatory to get into the, to get into the conservatory Amadeo Roldan the national, the national conservatory of music in Havana. And, and so I went there. My mom brought me there. I made the test and I got in. And it was great for me because I have really great teachers. That she – they, they taught me to play, to play classical music. In Cuba the Cuban conservatory at that time they used to teach just classical music. Classical European music. They, they didn’t teach anything else like even, even they didn’t teach – at this time they didn’t teach Cuban music. All they – they also teach how to play classical Cuban music from the two centuries ago. [foreign language] this stuff. But the classical music was a priority. They, they weren’t , they were not jazz schools in Cuba. So they, they just – we taught our self — to the other musicians of my generation they, they learn how to, how to play just listening record, borrow record [inaudible] and stuff. And that was it. I was at the conservatory around three years until 19 – from 1968 until 1970. In 1970 they call me to, to join the, the army, the military. And – but they didn’t, they brought me to the, the regular military unit. They, they brought me to the, to the military band in Havana. The band – so I was there in the military band. The military band is the one that used to do the, the military service. A lot of funerals and every time someone very important the president or someone come, comes to the, to the airport in Havana they have to go there and play – to play for them you know. At the airport. So all this military services. And I, I learnt how to play clarinet in the band. And also eventually I play — I also play piano with the, with the bank because they used to, they used to make festivals between the cities, and they make competitions. All the bands in from Havana from Orienta, from Camaguey they have all the city they have a military band and they make festivals and they, they make festival every year and they, they compete between them. So I – they put me to play piano and song – and songs, the songs of festivals.
>> Howard Spring: What kind of music did these bands play?
>> Hilario Duran: They play all the, all the – basically all the national I think of different countries. When they – when they receive the presidents in the airport in Havana and also in the – they, they used to play in funeral services. But all – when the time comes this, this festival they – the main repertoire they played was like Cuban music and some sort of classical music and original compositions and stuff like that. That was – for me that was a great experience being the – being in the band. Because I learnt to play clarinet enough that quit the instrument but mostly because it was a great experience for me to be in the band interacting with all the musicians. And playing – because also they used, they used to [inaudible] on different groups and play and they you know this kind of stuff. When we was very, very good to be interacting with all the musician in the band. [inaudible] release the, I release the band in 1973. And I – after release from band I have – I want to be a professional, professional musician. Like play – make, make a living as a musician. That what I want, wanted to do. And so I, I started playing as a professional musician in the, in the band called [foreign language]. It was a kind of band that played like a very sort of traditional music. The [foreign language] was called [foreign language]. That was – that come from the rumba tradition the – this person. [foreign language] was again composer of this kind of music and the guy didn’t know notation music. He used to take all his ideas to the musicians so he, he, he used to tell with the mouth how to play this thing. I sing the melodies. He sing the melody to the piano to the bass and he taught the musician how to play different combinations of, of [inaudible]. To play that. For me this band was great experience. That was the band where I learn really very much how to play all kind of Cuban music.
>> Howard Spring: So this was popular music?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, those Cuban popular music, yes.
>> Howard Spring: Okay.
>> Hilario Duran: And the – yeah in that band I learn, I learn how to play all different – the main genres of, of Cuban music like the son montuno, the rumba, guaracha, that kind of thing.
>> Howard Spring: Can you play some examples now just to give us an idea of what they might have sounded like?
>> Hilario Duran: All the time, yes, I, I quite don’t remember very much the, the music that I used to – they used to play because that was a long time ago.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah, that’s okay.
>> Hilario Duran: What I can do, what I can do is what I can do is I could play some sort of this style.
>> Howard Spring: Sure.
>> Hilario Duran: Of what they used to play. I will, I will play a song called El Manisero. I don’t know you have all this song is. I was a very, very popular at the beginning of the 20th Century in Cuba. [foreign language] the peanut bandit.
>> Howard Spring: Oh, yeah, sure. Sure.
>> Hilario Duran: And it was very popular. It’s a, it’s in the style of song [foreign language].
>> Howard Spring: Okay.
>> Hilario Duran: And the melody of El Manisero you know the son Oregon is a style of music that belonged to the song and it was – [inaudible] but they – what the state vendors in Havana. They used to make little melodies to promote their products in the street. And this song – sort of like flutes, [inaudible], flowers and roses kind of thing and they used to sing their, their products. And that’s same – that this song play all this time became like a really like a tradition. Like a, like a really strong tradition into the Cuban method the son pregon and son montuno. So I will, I will play the El Manisero but I have to – I will put a stool to play a little better. Hold a second.
[ Music ]
>> Howard Spring: Very nice. Fantastic. That was great. So with people – when you played that in the band, would people dance to it?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, they used to dance, of course. We – the – there were – we used to, we used to play in places when the people used to dance. Places for dance for example it’s a place called [foreign language] Tropicana. It’s a – was like a big square and they have a stage with the band and the people danced down on the floor. And also, we used, we used to play in shows and radio and television, shows and theatres and all, of all kind, all kind of things you know. For me it was, it was a great experience to play with them because that’s where I learnt to how to, how to play, how to play montuno’s I had to play the main styles of, of Cuban music.
>> Howard Spring: So when you say montuno, what do you mean?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah montuno is a, a – the montuno is a melody. It’s a little phrase like a kind of pattern two bars. The, the, the melody’s would rhythmically– the – of the melodies that are made to combine all of different styles of the main style for Cuban music. You know.
>> Howard Spring: Can you, can you play an example?
>> Hilario Duran: Yes. Since I was doing and this song, this one montuno in four chord.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know like that. [inaudible] this is the montuno’s are like a -this is so different of western play montuno different from combination. This is really a different way to do it. Like more simple like we can do it with one hand like.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And the montuno’s are connected with the Cuban clave. You have the Cuban clave and so they – so we call them montuno because count the montuno’s come from – they come – the music from the [inaudible]. From the [inaudible] son – so the son, the son [foreign language] it was original from, from, from the east of Cuba from Oriente. From Oriente and, and the – those – this, this melody, this pattern that this melody that make up the pattern has to Cuban music [inaudible]– they used to play on the tres, on the acoustic guitars. The tres, I don’t know that you know that the tres is a, is a Cuban instrument that comes – that have different – three, three double strings. Two and different [inaudible] I think it was in three, four [inaudible]. I don’t know – something where – what the, the tuning of the, of this, this instrument. They have three different strings. And when they, when they play these sonnes, they, they make those melodies.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: So the first son montuno that they made the – it was – it, it, it, it was something like that. That’s it. in one cord for the [inaudible]. One, two, one, two, three, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You add the bass. It’s going to be like that.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: So you want the clave, you want the clave to the montuno’s it’s gong to be like that.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know like that. I don’t mention the clave. You know the clave? You probably have hear about the clave. Clave.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah, yeah.
>> Howard Spring: Also the pattern [inaudible] of, of two bars that comes – it’s added to all this – most of the styles of, of Cuban music. It’s a pattern of two, of two bars that comes — that have to start with two [inaudible] that something with three, three beats and two in the second bar. It’s a something like a two [inaudible] two dotted quarter note – two – see – yes. Two dotted quarter note and one quarter note at the end and two quarter note in the second bar. With the, with the quarter note rest on the first beat and two quarter note and another rest of quarter note at the end. That son that one, two, three, four.
[ Banging ]
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: Something like that.
>> Ryan Bruce: How does that figure that you’re playing now become the montuno that you played before?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, because develop, it develop in that way you know the, the first montuno that I played like this.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: That was, that was the, the really – the very old style when they [inaudible] this song in the beginning of the 20th Century. The, the main composer of that era was Miguel Matamoros. He created a big collection of, of songs with the, this style of music. And he was, he was the one that created the all the structure of the, of the music with the melody beautiful melodies and they use of the clave. The clave were – you know the clave was, was made with, with wood. Start with two count, two count percussion instrument is to play like that you know. And this, this groups of Miguel Matamoros they used to play as a trio. As a trio at the beginning they have – they were made for by three singers. Three singers, for one singer to play the tres, the other play the acoustic guitar, the Spanish guitar and the other one the other guy play the clave. And some sort of instrument like a — could be like a bongo. The bongos are [inaudible]. There, there, there was a format of that those, those group at the, at the beginning of the 20th Century. And after, after a while they start adding, they start adding more instrument like the, the – they add acoustic bass, normal bass [inaudible] they added a trumpet and that and also, also they added another percussion and they were – the music was a little bit more complex than that but it was – the main structure was like that. You know.
>> Ryan Bruce: What are some things of the montuno’s that you play now of, of a repertoire, something the montuno’s all have in common? Or a defining feature. What is it that holds it and makes it a montuno rather than something else?
>> Hilario Duran: Yes, a montuno – the montuno what I said before is the, the figure the melody that they, they used to, they used to – they use to, to [inaudible] all sort different styles of Cuban music. And it – also the montuno is – it was part of [inaudible] the montuno was part of the, style called danzon that – the danzon was born also at the, at the beginning of the 20th Century around the 1930s. And the danzon comes from the contradanza. That it is even older, the contradanza is a kind of music that is the fusion of European classical music with — together with the Hispanic traditional Hispanic music and also the percussion from Africa.
>> Howard Spring: Can you play an example of a danzon?
>> Hilario Duran: Of a danzon? Yes, I can play [foreign language]. So this is, this is a danzon that was very popular in the – around 1930s or the end of the ’30s, ’40s called l’emindra. L’emeindra means alamo. So these are – but, but before, before I play the danzon I will first play will be the structure. The structure of danzon is ,it’s a very similar to the, to the classical sonata. This a A, A B, A, A, B, A. was the main theme [inaudible] and after the main theme and then after that comes what we call the son or the montuno at the end and where – that’s where the musician used to improvise over one sided harmony.
>> Howard Spring: So the first part is composed and then the montuno section happens, and people improvise over that, is that the way it works?
>> Hilario Duran: People improvise, people improvise [inaudible] and even they use the, the singers they use improvise but also the song instrument like the – mostly the flute. And so, some [inaudible] so the piano. So this is a danzon called l’emeindra. And before I, before I start, I want to say about the danzon the rhythmic, the rhythmic part of the danzon is what we call the [foreign language]. The [foreign language]. It’s a figure of five, of five beats, of five note on the first beat and, and two, two hits on the second, on the second bar. Five, five note on the second bar and two notes. So it’s a [foreign language] connected with the clave becomes like that.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two, three, four.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: Sorry. I say five note and four, four note on the, on the second bar. And the [foreign language] connected with clave.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: It is different.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: So we play now the, the danzon. So you will see that, you will see here that the danzon emphasize it come from the [inaudible] of A, A, A, B, A. No. And after, and after the main theme repeats at the end is [inaudible] montuno where they improvisation. And after the montuno that comes the what we call the reprise. The reprise is – that they, they do like some sort of repeat the, the main theme at the end, the first theme are they, they do at the conclusion at, at the very end. So this is danzon.
>> Howard Spring: So Hilario when you do this, can you just – when you go to the montuno section can you say, here’s the montuno section? Just so we can.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: Hear it and then when you go back to the reprise, maybe just say that’s.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: What’s going on. So we can follow along.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, yeah.
>> Howard Spring: Thank you.
>> Hilario Duran: So here, here we go this [foreign language], the composer of this danzon is Orlando [phonetic] Maldez [phonetic].
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: Here’s the montuno now.
[ Music ]
>> Howard Spring: That’s great, Hilario. All right. So that was danzon. What about a contradanza?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, the contradanza is a while we’re doing, I will play the, the like a sort of medley of [foreign language] main but different composer. So the, the first, the first contradanza is called [foreign language]. And it was, it was dedicated to a great soprano singer at the time, the 18th Century for Tonada Tedesco. And this – the second one’s called [foreign language]. In English it means the peppers eyes. And the third one is the [foreign language]. The three kids and this composition they were written by [inaudible] and Manuel Saumell that they were the main composer of the [inaudible] the major composer of the 18th Century in Cuba. Tunada Tedesco.
>> Ryan Bruce: Hilario.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Before you start, does each one of these have the same form of A, A, B, A,A, B, A?
>> Hilario Duran: No this — no. No. It’s different. It’s a – this is kind of more simple form. It is, it – yeah, yeah. It’s a, it’s a – it have a similar, a similar form. And you, you will, you will see and will realize [inaudible] the same more or less the same form. But what is different in danzon is that the danzon have the – it’s a little bit more complex because it has the montuno at the end.
>> Ryan Bruce: And the contradanza that you’re playing doesn’t have.
>> Hilario Duran: And the contradanza it doesn’t have you know it doesn’t have the montuno. But it, it – it’s basically the same form.
>> Ryan Bruce: Okay. Could you let us know when you change from one tune to the next?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Great. Thank you.
[ Foreign Language ]
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And now the [foreign language].
[ Music ]
>> Howard Spring: Great.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: So when you were playing in the band that you were talking about before, you’d play son, son montuno,
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: You played a son. Would you play contradanza’s as well?
>> Hilario Duran: No, no.
>> Howard Spring: No, okay.
>> Hilario Duran: That’s different. That’s different. Although when we, when we played those kind of sones that you say, that son that’s a little bit of danzon elements. In the son – in the modern son there are some element of, of danzon sometimes that comes – come include, included in the son, the son montuno.
>> Howard Spring: Right, okay.
>> Hilario Duran: Because it isn’t all connected.
>> Howard Spring: Right. Sure. So, the – so in the band you’d play son montuno you’d play danzon. What other kinds of music would you play in that band?
>> Hilario Duran: We play, we used play rumba. We used to play I don’t know, cha-cha-cha. All sorts, all sort — most of the music, the music was [inaudible] mostly. There were, there were, there were – I can remember there were no slow songs on this in this, in this band. And just that was, that was, that was it.
>> Howard Spring: What – so can you play an example of a rumba?
>> Hilario Duran: [inaudible] you I did – I don’t think I prepare. What I can do is the pattern. I used to play a rumba before but not – I haven’t prepared for that today. The – what I can, what can – what I can say is the – I can play the pattern.
>> Howard Spring: Okay.
>> Hilario Duran: Of the rumba.
>> Howard Spring: Sure.
>> Hilario Duran: I can – it – how, how it was done because you know what is a rumba? Is, it kind of difficult to play just with the piano, because it – the rumba – to play the rumba you will need, you will need a set of percussionists to play, to play a rumba to play — with, with conga’s and some other instruments like chime bells and, and claves and, and stuff like that. And also you will need a choir of voices doing, doing the, doing the chants how, how, how the rumba. But, but I will do hear it as the pattern. The pattern of the rumba it, it’s really just simple. And, and you will see that when you play the rumba have some element of the montuno, but this is kind of fast montuno. You know it’s – the rumba we slow that down. Sort of – let me see if I can.
[ Music ]
>> Howard Spring: Okay.
>> Hilario Duran: As slow as that you know it’s like a kind of difficult to play the rumba with just one instrument like the piano you know. It’s a little bit more complex.
>> Howard Spring: When you were playing in this band, when was that?
>> Hilario Duran: When?
>> Howard Spring: Yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: That was in the – I enlist the army, I enlist the army in 1973.
>> Howard Spring: Okay.
>> Hilario Duran: And I start playing with this band in 1974.
>> Howard Spring: And how long were you with this band?
>> Hilario Duran: Around, around two years. Around two years or a little more. And after – and that was when, when I got a call, I got a call, I got a call from the pianist Chucho Valdes, the great Cuban piano Grammy winner to – he call, he called, he called me to [inaudible] in a great big band that he used to play. Because he, he was tried to make his, his band [foreign language]. So he did – it, it would – so to leave, to leave the circuit that he needed a substitute and he called me. He called me to sub [inaudible] and I was, and I wasn’t really hard to share when I got there because it was you know I used to play you know as – all this kind of music but I did not this time I didn’t have the experience to get into this, into this big band. I was the, the great, the greatest big band that they make in Cuba after the revolution with all masters.
>> Howard Spring: This was Irakere you’re talking about or?
>> Hilario Duran: No, yeah there was a band that Chucho made.
>> Howard Spring: I see.
>> Hilario Duran: To leave, to leave this band. This band was called Orquestra Cubana de Musica Moderna. Cuban twist on modern music and all the musicians there was – they were they were like [inaudible] great and it was, it was kind own experience this time. And – but I got in there and I, I got in the band with a little help I, I stay in the band. It was, it was another great experience for me to play in the band.
>> Howard Spring: What kind of music did they play in that band?
>> Hilario Duran: They played, they play all kinds music Cuban music, jazz and all sort of music and mostly what, what they used to do is play in variety shows in a, in a – in the local theatre [foreign language]. In the neighbourhood of Fidel. And they used to do every, every week they used to do a show there with, with the singers and play some all sort of Cuban music, like international popular music and sometime classical, sometime jazz and like that. I got the great, really great experience playing, playing on the [inaudible].
>> Howard Spring: Were you studying with anybody at that time or were you learning everything by ear or?
>> Hilario Duran: All [inaudible] learn was by you know taught myself. You know even – because when I got in this band that’s where I started learn, I learn how to write arrangements, how to write musical arrangement and there was a kind of school, a really good school for me because I start writing music for the band. And for the – so some of the [inaudible] weren’t, they weren’t, they weren’t good at the beginning but after I got, I got better writing for this kind of – form of – for the big band you know. And I, I learn. I learn by myself actually to – because I also have the opportunity in this band, the Orquestra Cubana de Musica I had opportunity to check scores and learn how to, how to voice instrument and how to – the structure was different format of music and stuff. And it was, it was great for me.
>> Ryan Bruce: Hilario, studying classical music first and then being brought into the Cuban music with Valdes, what are some of the major features of the Cuban music that for you made it Cuban rather than another style?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, let me, let me explain, let me explain to you what, what this happen yeah. The, the Cuban music I learn how to play Cuban music because I was listening. I was listening Cuban music since I was a little kid. Since, since I was a little kid I used to [inaudible] sort of Cuban music on the radio, and the TV. In the [inaudible] in Havana they have what we call a [foreign language], a huge box when they, they have all this vinyl records and they put a coin in the, they put a coin in the – they play whatever you want. And so I was listening all the, all this style of music and all the Cuban music scenes since I was a kid after we got – I go over listening this even without paying attention I was listening. So that comes into – [inaudible] into your blood you know. What happen in Cuba was – let me explain to you. After the, after the revolution in 1959 when Fidel Castro took the power they were – it was something that – they – the, the American music and the music in English the jazz and the pop music all this sort of, all the sort of style of music they were banned from this. From the radio, from the TV, they were – it wasn’t allowed to, to play American music at that time. And so the musician of my generation they learn I myself we learn to, to play jazz borrowing recordings [inaudible] vinyl records and, and also listening the short wave radio. And we used to be – jazz and this kind of thing. And at that time that was a time when I started write – staring classical music in the conservatory Amadeo Roldan in Havana. But and at that time I was obsessed with jazz. I really wanted to, I really want to play jazz all day. And I want – I don’t want to play Cuban music and all the sort of I just wanted to play jazz because it was – the music that was banned and prohibited by the government. So all the, all the young people I meet in my generation that we, we used to borrow records and learn. And that’s, that’s, that was the way that I learn to play jazz. I know there is all sort of jazz schools in North America in college and stuff but the way I learn to play jazz was the best way. Because I, I learnt – I copy all the improvisations and after that proper music by myself and practising in different piece and apply to some songs that I used to play I used to learn all this time that I learn and that’s the way that I learn how to improvise jazz. And so at that time in that was at the beginning of the, the year 1970s that I – and the end of the 1960s when I was in the [foreign language] when I want to hear jazz all day. I improvise and copying and I’m writing phrases and making – I have a book of phrases that I write myself and practice after. But the Cuban music was already into my DNA you know and so I went back to the Cuban music late, years later. Years later when I can say when, when, right before I came here – I get to Canada I start, I start getting interested again with, with Cuban music and, and, and that where I start investigating the end of this really deeply how to play different styles of and how to learn the foundation of, of the Cuban music.
>> Howard Spring: So after the revolution, you – the radio stations couldn’t play American music and I guess you couldn’t get the records but was it illegal to play? I mean if you playing jazz was that illegal?
>> Hilario Duran: Sort – it was sort of illegal. So some of the – even, even when I was in the – I told you I was in the military band. I was in the military band and we all wanted to play jazz. We were young, we’re adventurous and we really want to play jazz and they, they couldn’t hear you to play jazz because if you – if they, they got you playing a standard of sort of the kind of music that put you in the solitary. You know. And it was, it was crazy, but it was like that. It was just like that. And it wasn’t until when I – it was until later that they government changed a little bit the way, the way of that and they start playing music in the radio again. There only was jazz it was like a pop, a pop music. And all those, all those, all those group that [inaudible] really like the Beatles or The Rolling Stones, Marvin Gaye even so – most of the, most of the music of the pop music on the – the American music that I learn, there was – I discovered later when I make it to Canada here in the 1990s. [inaudible] Marvin Gaye, and all this other bands. I couldn’t hear in Cuba. I used, I used even, even – I got some of the music on short wave radio, but it wasn’t – just a little proportion of what I want to hear I got Blood, Sweat and Tears all those, all those, all those great band you know. I listen later. And also, I got – because after, after a while they – in the ’80s that the government start opening, start opening [inaudible] and stop playing the music again.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah, I, I – I’m you know – I went to the Havana Jazz Festival many, many years ago. So – and there were a lot of great players there, so I was under the impression that there was some support for jazz.
>> Hilario Duran: That was later.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: That was later that they start, they start supporting jazz because it changed, they change the rules you know. But also because they you know what I can say is that we have all these they have all these conservatories of this school that they, they teach, they teach music for free. And, and the thing is that because of that they were a lot of great players but they, they didn’t, they didn’t teach – they weren’t jazz schools in Cuba. They never were. They were – but the musicians they learn how to play jazz because it came from foundation of classical music and they weren’t [inaudible] to play those – this older sort of style of music like the funk and the [foreign language] and all those thing and the – and they were, they were – there always were great players in Cuba. Even, even now you know. And so they start making, they start making the jazz festivals in Havana. So by the time that you might be were the late ’70s and stuff, but the government, the government, the government used to, used to get, used to make all these festival to promote the revolution.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah. Sure.
>> Hilario Duran: You know. That was the real truth of [inaudible] you know and the, and they’re doing it you know.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah, no. I know. I know. Hilario you were saying that you know you were playing jazz but then you got back to Cuban music later.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: How did that play a role in your, your writing and your playing when you got back to that?
>> Hilario Duran: Yes it got, it got – it was something that was, or it came naturally you know. Like what I don’t know that at first got kind of fusion of, the Cuban style of [inaudible] you know. I — the style that I, that, the style I tried to, to make when I play piano is the fusion of the – of this two style [inaudible] music just ceremony with the clave and with different sort of Cuban music. That’s that what I was doing.
>> Howard Spring: Do you think that was in, in general that people got interested in Cuban music again even, even, even as the government opened up to more different kinds of music? I guess what I’m asking are people in general interested in traditional Cuban music or are they just interested in kind of modern pop music?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, but that was, that was – let me tell you. That was, that was back in the late ’60s. Now, now it’s different. And after they – now they, they – now it’s different. They play all sort. There is there is a great development in Cuba of all sort of music in the radio you know. You know it’s – it just like that. You know that all develop — and the, and the music – and this is something good with there. You know that the music help develop on the all the music schools and they got wait every year young musician with high level, really high level of interpretation and it’s really, it’s really great. That’s why, that’s why even since I, I came here to Canada, I came here to Canada in 1998. But I never, I never got disconnected with the Cuban, the music scene in Havana. I always tried to, to find out what’s going on there you know because it’s always – there’s always a great scene going on in Cuba of the music you know. And I always – I connected with all the musicians there you know. We haven’t been disconnected.
>> Ryan Bruce: I’m interested in the montuno because you were talking about it being a melody and rhythmic and then.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, well I – I [inaudible] for mention about this while were talking.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: The – so remember that I, remember when I talk to you about the, the montuno’s that were connected with the clave.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: The clave is a pattern, it’s a pattern of two bars. So I [inaudible] and the clave is more specific you know. Here, for here say that the clave is one of the earliest known percussion instruments that serve to the universal role of beating out the really accent of the music we – within [foreign language]. The term clave commonly associated with Cuban music. You know [inaudible] percussions instruments such as the banging of sticks or [inaudible] banging [inaudible] but for a purpose. Similar purpose of a modern use of calve to define the pulse and accent of the music. The percussion instrument were often made of wood. The most [inaudible] natural element between the environment you know. That’s why the, the clave is, is two, two pieces of wood you know. So the role clave in many African [inaudible] has taken [inaudible]. Clave is both an instrument and a concept you know. The traditional wooden clave as such does not [inaudible] and on African instrument not in the same manner of the – for Cuban music. The Cuban clave is a parting of two bars. One of them is strong and the other weak. The pattern has to be complete relation with the melody and the rhythm. When this pattern is not connected or there is no [inaudible] between that is called calve [foreign language] you know. That’s what, that’s what I was doing for example. I would put an example of how, how this means. You know the clave – when the son montuno started, they used to – they used to have the three two clave is the what they call traditional Cuban clave with three beats first and two beats you know. Like I represent before.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: Three beats. Two beats. One, two, three, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: But when, when the music – when the Cuban music develop into the montuno have start the clave change. And start — and so most of the Cuban music that they play now, nowadays, the modern Cuban music they, the Cuban clave it start with two beats instead of, of three. I try and demonstrate here before [inaudible]. I would play a montuno and different harmonies. It’s a little bit more complex because that like more — starting with one, four, five, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two, three, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: Okay plus the bass.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And we want the clave it’s going to be four three instead of three two.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: See. I start with two beats. So if you want to start the clave with three beats you have to change the montuno and start the montuno on the second bars.
>> Howard Spring: I see.
>> Hilario Duran: You know.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: So for example as you do – as you – if you play this in montuno you play the three two clave is what is wrong. It’s called [foreign language] is the – for example if I want to play this.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: I start [inaudible] even I can’t do it myself you know. So if you – even – so you want to play the three two clave you have to start the montuno on the second bar with the figure of all syncopated notes of this all off-beat notes. One, two, three, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And now we, we start with three beats.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know and that.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: Two beats.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And three beats.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: All of the bass it’s always – it doesn’t, it doesn’t change.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: The other thing about the clave, about this style of music is also what I, what I want apply five because this if we were – yeah, because we, we spoke about this son montuno first. We didn’t speak about the African music that is connected to the Cuban music. I will, will talk about, about the bembe and how it’s connected the African music with, with the clave one of this, this sort of thing you know. The bembe [inaudible] the, the bata drums and stuff. So the, the bembe what we bembe is, is the type of music that comes from Africa and the, the main, the bar, the main bar, the main verses that they use in this, in this music is the six, eight and three, four instead of two, four, four, four in the son montuno. And the, the bembe have the, the clave too. I will read about a bembe that is so you will understand. So the bembe African, Cuban music have been around for many years. It can provide many styles that all mould together to create one form of music. One proper form of this is a six eight for Cuban bembe. Any style of music played in six eight time [inaudible] takes on the [inaudible] or the bembe. This style originates from the word – for the word bembe. Religious – the bembe is nothing of that religious gatherings that involve singing, drumming, and dancing. In fact, this is more of an African beat than anything else. Bembe is a pattern where all songs create a movement come together at the same time to call the [foreign language]. To call the same you know. It is a party for the fun of religious or [foreign language]. What I want, what I really want to say is that bembe and also one, one important thing about this the – with the clave, the son montuno, the bembe is this two — there’s two divisions. So divisions in music. The bembe music is based on six eight three four. So all, all the music is, is based on triplets and group of three you know. So if you hear the, the, – if you, you hear the African or the African bembe clave is there’s two kind. It’s two different. This is a sample of bembe clave in six eight or three four. It can be – three eight – three – three four or six eight. One, two, three, two, two, three.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: So when you see that this with division are triplets.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: That is another African bembe clave. This is a little more simple. It’s like.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: So the other one I was playing was.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: And when you play the most simple clave that is.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: And you take out the two division how it sounds. So.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: See.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: It’s very similar to.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: See. It’s almost the same. The only, the only thing that is the division are different. And you – you might have saw division of son montuno clave it’s going to be.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: You might have saw the original six eight for Cuban bembe.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: What that means, that’s why, that’s why when you play Cuban music or African jazz, or all this kind of music you have to be very comfortable with this sort of division because there are lot of phases that you – when you play there is a lot of displacements on the melodies and the figures that comes from this division of triplets and A notes. That’s why there are so many melody that use – for example, if you play the montuno.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And you start making the displacements of the same montuno comes into the territory of six eight three four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know – I don’t think you noticed that. Like if the – it’s not [inaudible] counted this made – the displacement of the melodies. For example.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: That’s all bass on A, displayed A notes. But if you do.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two, three, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: It sounds like the montuno is slowing down in tempo.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Uh-huh. So you – in that example you were keeping the same bass line in the [inaudible].
>> Hilario Duran: The bass line doesn’t change.
>> Ryan Bruce: In fours and then you’re borrowing this – these ideas from the six eight clave in your.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Your right hand?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, this is, this is, this is done where the, where the beauty of, of this style is you know that is – this really – all those phrases they come, come first an A note that suddenly, suddenly change to the territory of six eight three four and triple but syncopated and in some – there is a lot of the sample like that you know. But one of them montuno’s the, the amount of montuno’s you hear actually they are very complex because that comes into that, into that scene the – it change constantly between six eight – six eight three four or two four, four, four.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah. Your bass line is also syncopated and what you were playing there sounded typical. What are some of the characteristics of a common bass line?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, yeah also the bass line also change a bit. We change the, the – as I say at the beginning of the, of the, of the 20th Century when was the traditional son montuno, the montuno that I played.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: The bass was very simple.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know like that. It’s very difficult for me to play the bass the montuno and the clave with the foot you know.
>> Howard Spring: It’s good. It’s [inaudible]
>> Hilario Duran: I, I try my best. You know so the various change. With the other – when the montuno develop a little bit more – with more cords like.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: So the bass line started with two quarter notes and two other quarter notes at the end a quarter note tied with another quarter note that and [inaudible] all like that you know. When I started the, the music started on beat with one note of the, of the down beat.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: But when it comes to this bar the, the last quarter note is tied with the – of the next bar, of the quarter – another quarter note.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: Did the basic bass line of that. But You can have a little bit – you can add notes here and there. Like sounds like.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You can do it like that. One, two, three, four.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: There is another bass line that is very common in the modern Cuban music that we call timba. And it’s very close at – very close to some of the Brazilian styles. It is – it start, it start with a quarter note, a rest and two quarter note at the end. Bump, bump, bump bing. Ta, ta bump. And after it change — it, it comes in different with two rests a quarter note and two quarter note at the end. Like.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two. One, two, three, four. One, two, three, four. One, two. One, two, three, four. One, two, three.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You can, you can use – you can change back and forth of this [inaudible].
>> Ryan Bruce: It seems like in both of those you – the syncopation is anticipating the.
>> Hilario Duran: Every bar. Anticipated in every bar.
>> Ryan Bruce: On every bar, yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, it comes – you can – it’s like – it doesn’t have to be [inaudible] a streak you know we don’t want – you’re playing music is like – it’s almost all, all the bars are anticipated. But you anticipate every four bars, every eight bars. Nowadays it’s sort of very, very – it’s changed a lot. And it’s a lot of.
>> Ryan Bruce: Is that – is there best practices or are people just improvising their choice on, on those notes?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, they’re – also – but because also the, the thing is that I use, when, when they’re [inaudible] the music is – it have – they play. Mostly bass player they play the depend on the intensity of, of the music you know. The intensity of how the drums comes with a beat or the thrill of [inaudible] on the piano that makes [inaudible] he also responding someone – some way you know. That, that’s all – that’s – this is all connected you know like that. Like. We can start doing. One, two, thee, four. One, two, three, four. One, two. One, two, three, four. And notice the change?
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know like that.
>> Ryan Bruce: Now as much as you’re describing it in four, four, it seems like a lot of those notes are, are lining up with the clave. And a bass player would they being thinking more in terms of, of counting and bars or, or is all of this resting on more of a timeline to the clave?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, it’s connected, it’s connected with the clave and it’s connected also with the part of the conga. With the tumbadora, the conga. It’s connected most, most of the beats that he play are connected with the conga.
>> Ryan Bruce: And those will be the same or do they interlock?
>> Hilario Duran: They interlock. They interlock. Let me see if the – I don’t – I have, I have a key.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two, three, four. One, two.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: This part is for only one.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two, three, four. One, two.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: One, two, three, four. One, two.
[ Music ]
[ Singing ]
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know that – there – it, it’s connected with the conga’s. Connected with clave. [inaudible] it’s like, it’s like they rhythm machine you know.
>> Ryan Bruce: It’s a good, good description. I have a question about montuno because but used in two different context and recently we’ve been looking at the rhythm and the melody of a montuno pattern. But we also said that the montuno was a section when you played the contradanza.
>> Hilario Duran: The contradanza?
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah, the contradanza.
>> Howard Spring: You mean the danzon, mean the danzon?
>> Hilario Duran: No, the danzon – there is no montuno’s in the contradanza.
>> Ryan Bruce: That’s right.
>> Howard Spring: The danzon.
>> Ryan Bruce: So, when you played the danzon we got to a section called the montuno.
>> Hilario Duran: No. Danzon, yeah, yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah, and so assuming that you play a montuno pattern in the montuno section.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Right?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: How long does, does a montuno section last? Is it prescribed length when you’re playing a piece or is that improvised as well?
>> Hilario Duran: Improvised. Improvised [inaudible] it, it keeps as long the energy of the musician you know. It can, it can, it can definitely [inaudible] like you know depends, depend on how, how long the, the musician is improving lasts if we run out of ideas you know. Like that.
>> Ryan Bruce: And how long is a typical section?
>> Hilario Duran: How long is typical section? It takes like a you know it’s, it’s – of the, of the – you have to count, you [inaudible] even bars. You can probably to, to make a good, a good session for improvising can be maybe eight times or sixteen times. It always even. You know 32 times and done.
>> Ryan Bruce: So, in a live performance though would it – would you expect to be playing a montuno for a minute or eight minutes? How long?
>> Hilario Duran: Probably, probably a minute. Probably, probably two – probably two minutes.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah. Okay.
>> Hilario Duran: It takes, takes a lot you know as you count is two minutes of music is – it [inaudible] but when you, when you play two minutes it’s you know. A song, that – a song that use you use two minutes of, of music playing montuno it’s long. You know.
>> Ryan Bruce: And that, that would be the same for montuno sections in a, in a, a, a, son or a, or a rumba? Is that the same?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah. Yeah. Again like that. Again like that. On the rumba it’s different because a rumba is, is more, is more active. And the sections are shorter. In the rumba because all based on percussion and voices. The, the voices they make a choir and they respond. Choir responds. Choir responds. And there is a guy improvising and there is a choir that is singing the, singing the section that is, it’s a little phrase that responds to the person that’s, is improvising. And it’s just like that. Because they don’t have instrument like when, when you play that rumba with voices and percussion. And percussion instrument is just like that. It’s all based on melodies and, and, and choir – and choruses you know. But when you, when you play rumba with bass and piano it’s different. It, it takes longer because they have the structure. It gets the structure. I, I would rather that you to maybe check it out one of my albums. There is a, there is an album that I made in 2006 with a big band. With the son – I made an arrangement of the, the song of the percussion [foreign language] Blem, Blem, Blem. It’s a rumba. And you will hear that in this, in this song of the, all the structure of the, the rumba how it goes, you know. I, I don’t know if here is anywhere that I can, I can play some beat for you to – let’s not. No way no.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah, that’s okay. How much is the montuno section tied to dancing?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah. It gets a – yeah. Well the montuno, the montuno is connected also with the dancer or with the dancers. I – it’s a chord that if you, if you play the montuno that is wrong, the dancers stop dancing. You know. If something, if something wrong with [inaudible] instrument the dancer doesn’t feel comfortable dancing anymore. They have, they have to be all connected you know. That, that way well that’s why we call these [foreign language] or montado . Montado [phonetic] means that it’s mounted, it’s ruined you know.
>> Howard Spring: So wrong means instead of playing let’s say for example a three two, you’re playing a two three when you should.
>> Hilario Duran: Two three.
>> Howard Spring: Be playing a three two, something like that?
>> Hilario Duran: Yes.
>> Howard Spring: Nice.
>> Hilario Duran: Also, it can, it can occur with the montuno if you play that wrong montuno, if you play the wrong clave also. It bad. You know.
>> Howard Spring: So do you learn how – which – I mean I guess after a while you just get a feel for what’s the right one.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah. Yeah, but it is – but you – let me tell you is that, it’s a big controversy on, it’s a big controversy on how it’s, it’s done. There was a time, there was a time in Cuba that there was a big controversy about the clave. And it get very intense. Also there is a thing, because I just want to tell you, the Cuban music after the revolution they – the Cuban music develop different inside Cuba than outside of Cuba like places like Venezuela or New York or Puerto Rico or Columbia in Canada plays the salsa you know. In Puerto Rico they play the Cuban music, they play this what we call salsa. And they – all the – most of their music that they play is in three two clave instead of two, three that the Cubans do. And it’s a big fight you know. Puerto Ricans say that we’re wrong and Cuban say that they are wrong.
>> Howard Spring: The best controversy.
>> Hilario Duran: Best – yeah. It’s, it’s like a – but, but it’s, it’s the people dance anyway with, with both clave’s you know. Because as you, as you go to party in Puerto Rico with the salsa band, people are dancing. They’re enjoying that’s the thing you know. The same, the same with the Cuban music. But because the, the Cuban music develop with more elements. They have a lot of funk music a lot of Brazilian music and some other style like the bomba from Puerto Rico that have the same bass line that I told you.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: That, that’s the bomba bass line from Puerto Rico. And they -this is a big – there is a big scene of Cuban music, the Cuban music that we call timba.
>> Howard Spring: So timba is what they’re playing now?
>> Hilario Duran: Timba is what they’re playing now. But, but, but the – but, but the timba was big in the – at the end of ’80s. In the ’80s they start, start develop the timba start developing because there was a – the Cuban musicians start adding a lot of rhythmic element from other styles of music like Brazilian music [foreign language] bomba from Puerto Rico and also element of funk. And they start adding phrases brass section like Earth, Wind and Fire sort of thing you know. And it’s – this is – even became very aggressive, very aggressive. The music became very aggressive and this is why montuno with all this display of triplet and stuff is all get lost. The timba was getting really, really wild at that time you know. Now, it’s – now the, the timba music and all the Cuban music in general got a little bit less aggressive, less intense but even more sophisticated.
>> Howard Spring: Sophisticated meaning harmonically or?
>> Hilario Duran: Harmonically, harmonic and rhythmically.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: You know.
>> Howard Spring: Do you think that’s the influence of jazz?
>> Hilario Duran: Also has a little bit of influence on jazz too you know. Like it’s all – start developing because what happened with Cuban music was that it continue, it continue to develop, develop. It never stop. Like it didn’t happen like for example the, the salsa from Puerto Rico or Columbia this start sound – they keep sound in the same like in 1950s. It didn’t develop that way, it didn’t develop that. And it was just like that you know Cuban bands they always develop but now it’s – this – all this is really fantastic when you, when you [inaudible] have all the [inaudible] or have the, the – it develop itself in music.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah. Do you still go down to Cuba?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah. I, I never stop going down there. I even – I – the other recording I made was, was I recorded in Havana. What it is – in the 2017 my last album it’s called Contumbao they have the luxury and the privilege to, to use a really great musicians, big stars. They’re, they’re great players like tresaro Pancho Amat is the – ones the greatest in the world. And the percussionist Jose Luis Quintana “Changuito” down in Cuba. Huracio “El Negro” Hernandez the drummer and even I have the, the great privilege to make a duet with Chucho Valdes.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah.
>> Hilario Duran: Which is [inaudible].
>> Howard Spring: Right.
>> Hilario Duran: And that you to check it out when you have a chance you know. it’s called Contumbao.
>> Howard Spring: All right. I’ll check it out. For sure.
>> Ryan Bruce: I’ve noticed, I’ve noticed that a lot of the music introduces a lot of chromaticism. I’m wondering what is the role of chromaticism in Cuban music? Where does that come from?
>> Hilario Duran: You know I, I, I don’t understand very well the, the word. [inaudible] chromatic scales? No.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah. As opposed to diatonic harmony.
>> Hilario Duran: Diatonic harmony, oh.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah, so you have that.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Because a lot of the music sounds like there’s very clear – a very clear sense of diatonic harmony.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: And then a lot of notes that are used outside of that harmony which we would call chromatic [inaudible]
>> Hilario Duran: Yes,
>> Ryan Bruce: Chromatic scale. So where does that come from?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, yeah. It come from you know the, the traditional Cuban music in general. The traditional. It’s very diatonic. Very simple. Very simple. It’s different than just lines and the chromaticism of just lines you know. But when the music – the music develop, when the music develop more even the Cuban music the salsa they start, they starting more modern harmonies and [inaudible] in the, in the music in general.
>> Ryan Bruce: So that’s more of a characteristic of salsa then the earlier styles of son [inaudible].
>> Hilario Duran: Yes. For example, for example the – for example minor, the minor modes from the early Cuban music, in general in Cuban music it’s based on the minor harmonic scale.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: That comes also because the influence that Hispanic influence in Cuban music with the scales of this.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And if you – and, and in major one. To play them this music in major it’s a really diatonic [inaudible] using most of the ionic major scale.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And also make a emphasis, make – they use a lot of sixths.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: On that you know. There is a influence of the 1950s and the 1940 for the, the of the big band era of this big band Count Basie and Duck Ellington they use a lot of the sixths. They also applied this to the, to the big bands in Cuban music.
>> Howard Spring: Hmm, interesting. So where does the chromaticism come from bebop or?
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah, they come this – because as I say before the, the – most of the Cuban music is mostly diatonic. But when, when the, the Cuban music developed to the timba it did – it develop rhythmically big time. But also harmonically. It’s changed big time and this time you’ll see modern harmonies in, in Cuban music in general.
>> Ryan Bruce: I’m also interested in this idea you did refer to the – coming from Spanish music and some – you played some scales that weren’t of an Ionian or – they weren’t of the minor scale or they weren’t in the major scale. So is there an element of Spanish music that comes in melodically or harmonically?
>> Hilario Duran: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: And where?
>> Hilario Duran: Come the flamenco. It come from the flamenco and it come from the – you know it’s just a – it’s a fusion of, of [inaudible] you know. The you know when the Spanish – for the Spanish Conquers went down to Cuba to exploit, exploit the island you know they brought African slaves. So the African slave they, they put African slaves on the – African slave they, they brought that with themselves with all this culture tradition of African, African chants. They’re beautiful chants and melodies but really, really great. And also the, the fusion of that with the, with the Hispanic flamenco music and also because there is another element, the classical music the European classical music from mostly from France because there, there were, there were the [inaudible] in the island of Haiti and it was colonized by the French people. [inaudible] they were, they were they’re located during – in the island of Haiti and they have also the, the slaves at the time and the slave they, they make revolution there. And there was a lot of killing and killing people and there was a lot of immigration escaping from the, from the revolution of Haiti. There was a lot of – a big population that went at the east of Cuba with, with all this music from – the, the classical music from France. And, and also all this music make a mix fusion. There were the [inaudible] also the contradanza they came from – it come from, from Europe to Cuba. So the island of Haiti you know. So the contradanza went – arrive in Cuba and fusion it. And blend the – with Hispanic flamenco.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: And together with the flamenco scales and Hispanic, Hispanic scales and stuff. And [inaudible] to the African percussion and claves, even the clave. The clave influence from six eight to four, four at the beginning of the 20th Century and end of the 19th Century. And that’s all the – where it come from. So with the contradanza life to Cuba. So the island Haiti it and fusion with Hispanic and the African it became contra-what we call contradanza [foreign language] with all these element. That’s what I was playing. And you could, you could hear that, that’s sophisticated harmonies you know on that. It’s really beauty. It’s – and also because you know only that there was – there weren’t a lot of at that time in the 1800s or the end of the 1700, 1800, there was a lot of interchange between Cuba, Mexico, [inaudible] and New Orleans. In New Orleans they were, they were playing some sort of music similar to the contradanza in Cuba. They are – they were – there are a lot of element that interchange and make you know. The early, the early style of Dixieland that the music of Jelly Roll Morton and this traditional American music before the jazz came in have a lot of connection with the Cuban contradanzas. And this all fascinating you know. It’s really.
>> Howard Spring: Right.
>> Ryan Bruce: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: It is.
>> Ryan Bruce: Is there any demonstrations of these kinds of things that we should have in sound? And what I’m wondering about is either some of the interesting things that you talked about if you’re able to demonstrate either flamenco, something that’s more strictly flamenco? You mentioned about some beautiful African songs, African chants. I’m not sure if you know anything that would represent that. Or just having something that is like a more modern sound compared to the.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Ryan Bruce: Other traditional music. Is there – do you have preference? What would be most valuable I think at this, at this time? Maybe that one last demonstration before we finish.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah. I would, I wouldn’t [inaudible] instead of – you know I’m going, I’m going to play some like I said before, the – there is a big influence of Hispanic music in the Cuban music. Even, even myself I was since I was a kid the same, the same [inaudible] listening to all sort of music, I was listening a lot Hispanic music from Spain on the radio and the TV. A lot of – I saw a lot of movie – it was very popular – we, we call in Cuba the Spain the modern art. We were colonies — colonized by them you know. So, there — for years I compose I was commissioned to compose a song with Hispanic influence. So I, I, I want to demonstrate for you that before I finish. This is, this is a song called Spain On My Mind. And it has the first part, the first part of the, of the piece is based on the old beat, old beat Cuba flamenco that have the twelve beat. And it’s very fast. And the second part is the rumba, the slow rumba flamenco. And you will see the different you know. The rumba [inaudible] sound like.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: And the part comes with the old beat Hispanic music like. Very similar to the fast bembe, the African bembe.
[ Banging ]
>> Hilario Duran: Like that. So I will, I will, I will play that. You will see.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: Something like that.
[ Music ]
>> Hilario Duran: You know [inaudible] with the chair because it’s.
[ Background Noise ]
[ Music ]
>> Howard Spring: That was great. That was great, Hilario.
>> Ryan Bruce: Great.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah.
>> Howard Spring: Yeah, thanks for doing this. We really appreciate it. This is really.
>> Hilario Duran: Thank you so much.
>> Howard Spring: A great session. I think we’re all going to learn a lot of from it and the students are going to learn a lot from it. It’s exactly what we’re going for here. So I want to thank you for doing this. It was really great.
>> Hilario Duran: Yeah. Same to you man. Same to you. I’m, I’m glad.