Episode Notes

Research Interests

• Black Studies
• Race, Racism, & Racialization
• Critical Muslim Studies
• Community-Engaged Research

Selected Publications

Ali, N. N., El-Sherif, L., & Mire, H. Y. (2023). Islamophobia and proximities to whiteness: Organizing outside of the Brown Muslim subject. ReOrient, 8(1), 78–100. https://www.jstor.org/stable/48745266

Ali, N. N. (2018). Emancipation in an Islamophobic age: Finding agency in “nonrecognition,” “refusal,” and “self-recognition.” Journal of Critical Race Inquiry, 5(1). https://jcri.ca/index.php/CRI/article/view/6567

Ali, N. (2017). [Review of the book Red Skin, White Masks: Rejecting the Colonial Politics of Recognition by Glen Coulthard]. University of Toronto Quarterly, 86(3), 230-232. https://www.muse.jhu.edu/article/668911.

Learn about Nadiya’s influences

• Robin D. G. Kelley/ Freedom Dreams (American Historian/Academic)
• Saidiya Hartman (American Academic/ Writer)
• Sara Ahmed / politics of emotions (British- Australian Writer/Scholar)
• Viola Davis (American Actress/ Film Producer)

Learn about Nadiya’s interests

• Modern Physics: 5th Edition
• The Woman King (movie)
• Lo Capitano (film)

Transcript

Beth: Welcome to the Social Profs Podcast with your hosts Beth Torrens and Kristy Buccieri. This is the podcast where we attempt to turn teaching inside out by engaging in conversations outside the classroom with faculty, community members, and Trent student alumni. Our goals with these conversations are to learn more about the benefits of a criminology or sociology degree and to talk about the ways that students can get more involved at Trent and in the community. We will also do a deep dive with some Trent professors to learn more about their approaches to teaching, what drives their research, and a few fun facts you can only learn when you turn teaching inside out.

Kristy: Dr. Nadiya Ali is an assistant professor in the department of sociology at Trent University in Durham. In this episode we learn about the people who have influenced her and the experiences that have shaped her research interests in race and systems of oppression. Listen in as we ask Nadiya some thought provoking questions and put her on the hot seat. Thank you for joining us today Nadiya we really appreciate your time

Nadiya: Thank you for having me.

Kristy:  We’re wondering, what is the one burning question that drives your research? What got you interested in trying to answer it?

Nadiya: Okay, so just one question. Um I think, like starting this journey, I think I had a maybe a burning feeling more so than a question, right? I think like an undergrad, I think my, just a sense that like, why are things the way they are, especially when it comes to social inequalities? Like, how is the world like this? Why is it, you know, so easy for some just to move through and it seems like for others just there’s no movement happening. So, like, what produces that? You know, a lot of it comes from your own lived reality, right? Seeing those dynamics play out and not really having the language or the framing to really understand what’s happening beyond the individual level. And I think that’s what it was. like even pre, I think I was having similar questions even pre undergraduate, my undergraduate studies when some of the language start being present. But before that, even like, you know, my kind of high school experience, it was like a situation where there was like a high dropout rate, an incredibly high dropout rate in a high school. So, it was like, it was a big deal just to finish high school. And I would just think like, what produces these? And I like, I had a sense more so again, the language that like it’s not just individual action because I see what people are trying to do but still, we have this outcome. I think so that’s kind of what guided me into like the I guess sociological questions which I didn’t know that was even a field at that moment the time but guided me into the bigger folks you know kind of social political economic questions so I guess that eventually formulated into an ongoing question I think I always keep coming back to is now yeah the question has become more what does it mean to kind of act and move and and and speak from the racialized margins like you sit in the racialized margins there is we understand why at this point in a three studies like there is this over-determined field systems of oppression that mitigate all kind of things but people still act people still people still organize. So, the question has become, like, how does that happen? How do people figure those pieces out, given despite the kind of the systems at large? So, I think that’s the propelling question that I see myself coming back to, especially from my PhD and now moving into this work. So, it’s a long-winded way to say that you know. I guess the primary question is how do we, you know, find ways to move and act and speak, given the system at large, the interlocking oppressions that many racialized communities navigate through.

Beth: It’s great to think of ways to act and to push for change, especially when dealing with structural barriers, but certainly those situations can probably be very frustrating for different groups and maybe difficult to convey ideas to people who don’t have the same lived experience. How do you handle teaching or sharing research findings about maybe more difficult topics?

Nadiya: Yeah, yeah. Um that’s actually a good segue because I mean, I’ve always like, I’ve always found my, my teachers are professors that brought their research to class. Really exciting. I’ve always found that exciting. I remember in my undergraduate and graduate spirit, that being exciting. So, I try to do that. I try to bring my kind of my current research to class and kind of you know, like show students that like, this stuff is just not textbook stuff that we read and do with that. test on, like this informs actual work that we that we’re trying to do out there in the world. And a lot of my work, again, is on race, racism, racialization, systems of oppression, though that can be, you know, difficult kind of conversations, uncomfortable conversations people to engage in. And in many ways, like a one, one side of it is like folks that don’t have the lived experience and maybe just be hard to handle or like know where to come at it from. But from folks that have the lived experience, sometimes it can be a process of kind of rehearsing traumas, or you know being forced to be put in that position. There’s like you know multiple things to juggle at that point in time. So more often than not what I’ve found to be focusing on this is trauma error is that you know like a kind of baby steps kind of a scattered approach of like you know introducing heavy concepts in digestible ways and like slowly moving through kind of the entire kind of semester or entire curriculum plan so it’s not a standalone class and today we’re only gonna learn about racism just buckle down and it’s more like how do we see these systems as something that kind of continues to reformulate some come up in in ways that often we may not even think about and I’ve found that to be a more I guess digestible way for students to engage with kind of heavy pieces seeing like seen how it activates in different ways without them being forced to kind of deal with it all in one sitting.

Beth: So, you mentioned talking about or having that experience of professors bringing their own research into the class and so I’m wondering what is your favorite lecture or topic to cover in one of your classes?

Nadiya: I think the most, I’m biased I like most of my lectures, I think, especially in my kind of race and ethnicity class, when we get to near the end, even in my other classes, when we get to near the end, I try to wrap up this semester with talking about kind of possibilities of world-making, joyous practices, what does the practice of love look like. So those lectures, when we move past, kinda these are the structures, these are the interlocking systems, this is the world, and everybody’s like, oh wow, this is it, this is the world we live in. When we get to a place, okay, now let’s think about what does it mean to move and build and collaborate and how does that look like and how does freedom work look like and what people have done. I think those lectures I find pretty exciting and invigorating and often after going through some of the heavy material that’s stretched usually most of the semester when we get there I kind of I see it’s students like okay there is you know there is a pathway there is a way there is kind of like I’m not completely paralyzed by this kind of you know knowledge and I feel like that can happen and I’ve seen that happen where like just the heaviness of all feels parallelizing, especially when we deal with these kind of heavy pieces. But those topics where we talk about like, how do we activate, how folks have activate kind of freedom dreams, I could take the most exciting lectures on this on my end, and maybe I’m projecting assignments on the student side. But those are the most exciting on my end.

Beth: Well, I was gonna ask, do you think that aligns with students and their favorite topics or their favorite classes? Or do you think they might have a different approach?

Nadiya: I don’t know. Again, you know, we were seen from our own lens, right? And sometimes we see what we kind of want to see. But I think as dual purpose, I think there is, like, I think students do appreciate aha moments. So, I think students appreciate when, like, when they’re seeing a lot of things happen, but it’s not really coming together. So, the moment where, oh, okay, these systems work together, and this is why we see this out there in the world. I think those just revelations, I think students appreciate when they get there, but I do find like when we talk about kind of freedom dreams and otherwise worlds, those people I feel like I see much more kind of enthusiasm, a creative enthusiasm from students. So, I do think like that’s like reciprocal and often known as educators. We do kind of like, you know, reproduce what we have in our classroom. So, I think I’ve kind of seen that being a thing that draws a lot of enthusiasm as I’m in class, and I’ve also, I guess, in conjunction, put a lot more in those kind of discussions, or been a lot more creative in how I do it, where I want students to actively engage in world-making and thinking through, not just kind of me downloading information.

Kristy: Very interesting. We wanna take you from the classroom to a bit more of a sociology after dark. If you were having a dinner party, and you could invite anyone you want, dead or alive, who would you invite to be there?

Nadiya: I didn’t realize sociologists had dinner parties. This is what it used to be. We have dinner parties. We just live in academia [laugh]. So, when we find moments to have dinner parties, and we can invite anyone, I actually want to… I think this is the hardest question. This is the hardest question. I’m trying not to be biased and only have academics at dinner at the dinner table. So, I think just thinking about my recent readings like Saidiya Hartman, I’m spending a lot of time reading Saidiya’s Hartman works as a black studies kind of scholar, a black feminist scholar in the US. And a lot of her work around kind of freedom dreams, wayward kind of the everyday, like thinking about freedoms in the everyday and not like massive like revolution and those kinds of terms. I think I would want to have dinner parties with folks that think in that way. I love talking to storytellers, so I would kind of pick maybe my favorite author and invite them. I think I would Sara Ahmed’s work on like emotions and the politics of emotions would be someone that they’ll be passing me talk to. It’s strange because you have these idols, right, that you want to talk to, but I think in real life is different than your imagination, but we’ll stay in the imaginary world. And I think, again, I’m just thinking recently, like I watched a film called Women King of Viola Davis, some of y’all kind of came across Viola Davis was playing a key figure and it’s just, I was kind of mesmerized by that figure and this kind of imaginary of like a West African kind of, like as historical context, but to reimagine that. So maybe them, I don’t know, Saidiya Hartman, Sara Ahmed, Viola Davis, I guess that would be an interesting dinner party.

Kristy: It sounds like an interesting dinner party with lots of good conversation. What would you serve at your dinner party?

Nadiya: Oh, well, now we’re actually planning this dinner. Let’s see. Why would I serve at this dinner party? Well, it depends if I plan to cook at this dinner party but I think maybe I’ll spare them my cooking and kind of do a maybe a kind of a spread of my favorite takeout so maybe that’s what we’ll do we’ll all eat like the favorite kind of local takeout spots the local shops I spend a lot of time with so maybe we’ll do that like a spread of takeout so we’ll do a little Thai, some kind of Indian food, mix it with kind of some traditional you know East African food which is where I’m from and I think that maybe that will be the dinner party.

Beth: That sounds very engaging and also very delicious with a lot of options and a lot of probably different perspectives and conversations.

[Music]

Beth: The next set of questions we have, we’re going to flip the script a little bit, they are rapid-fire questions for us to get to know a little bit more about you And so you can answer one-word answers, two-word answers, or you can elaborate if you would like. And we’ll run through them and see what we get. Are you ready for the rapid fire?

Nadiya: I’ll try, like, asking academics to do one-word answers. You’re setting us up for failing. But, sure, I’ll try.

[Music]

Beth: All right. What is your favorite memory from when you were a student?

Nadiya: Um, when I was a student my favorite memory, um, late nights in the library, studying like quotation of quotation, we’re studying late night in the library, but really, we’re having a pizza party.

Beth: Nice. I had a few of those myself too. What is your favorite thing to do on the weekend?

Nadiya: Um, honestly, nowadays it’s like go to the park with my son and just see him just exhaust himself outside so he can come home and take a good nap. That’s my favorite thing.

Beth: Nice. As an academic, what is something you can’t live without?

Nadiya: My laptop. I thought my laptop was going to die two days ago and there was a mini meltdown happening, so I guess it’s my laptop, yeah.

Beth: Students have those issues but also professors do too.

Nadiya: yeah, we have those issues, too.

Beth: Is there a favorite TV show, podcast, or movie that you have?

Nadiya: There’s a lot of favorites. I think the, I would say, I guess, a recent thing is La Capitano. It’s about, like, African migrant story, starting from Senegal and working your way to Italy. So yeah, it was, it was pretty, it was pretty eye-opening.

Beth: What advice would you give your past student self?

Nadiya: Um, it’s okay, you’ll figure it out. Um, it’s okay, you’ll figure it out. I think that’s, I think I spent a lot of time thinking about planning everything and trying to see into the future, and I’m like, it’s just chillax. I think that’ll be the best, that’s why I still give myself.

Kristy: If you could instantly have any skill, party trick, or talent what would it be?

Nadiya: I’m gonna sound like a nerd here but I just like being able to like read at lightning speed maybe like go through material so quickly yeah I think that that would be the skill set.

Kristy: What course or subject did you not take as a student that you wish you could learn more about now?

Nadiya: I think physics. I did a little physic course in high school but I wish I did a bit more of that.

Kristy: Who do you admire?

Nadiya: What wow, who do I admire? Um, these are not rapid, nothing, these are like, not provoking. Um, I don’t know, I guess I honestly admire my mother. Maybe a lot of people will talk about moms, but I admire my mom. She went through a lot and she, um, yeah, I think I’ll just leave it there, my mom.

Kristy: Okay, we’ll give you one that’s a little less thought-provoking.

Nadiya: Okay, okay.

Kristy: Cat, dog, fish, bird, or lizard?

Nadiya: And I have to choose one. Let’s see, fish maybe?

Kristy: And if you weren’t working as an academic, what would you be doing?

Nadiya: Um I think doing community organizing work, probably working in the non-profit sector.

Beth: Well, you survived the rapid fire. Oh, I didn’t. Hopefully it wasn’t that too bad. So thank you very much for joining us today, Nadiya. We really appreciated learning more about you and your approach to teaching and research.

Nadiya: No, thank you for having me. This was fun. This was fun. Those rapid fire are tough, but this was fun.

[Music]