Episode Notes

Research Interests

• Gendered Violence
• Intimate partner violence
• Autism, disability, and justice
• Social (extra-legal) anti-violence interventions
• Policy

Selected Publications

Ehret, S. (2024). Examining criminal justice with autistic adults in Canada. Autism Alliance of Canada. https://autismalliance.ca/initiative/justice/

Ehret, S. (2022). “You can’t look the other way”: Justice as “recognition” for intimate partner violence. Canadian Journal of Women and the Law, 34(1), 146-173. https://doi.org/10.3138/cjwl.34.1.05

Ehret, S. (2020). Making meaning of justice ideals for intimate partner violence: Reflections on restorative justice. The British Journal of Criminology, 60, 3, 722-741.  https://doi.org/10.1093/bjc/azz077

Ehret, S. (2016). Justice for women who experience intimate partner violence: Reflections on restorative justice ideals and making social meaning. Dissertation.

Learn about Stephanie’s influences

• Barbara Hudson (UK Criminologist)
• Barbara Hudson: Justice in the Risk Society: Challenging and Re-Affirming Justice in Late Modernity
• Barbara Hudson: Justice in a Time of Terror
• Nils Christie (Norwegian Sociologist and Criminologist)
• Steven Fry (President of Mind)

Learn about Stephanie’s interests

• Bike Maintenance 101
• Do it yourself Bicycle Service
• Princess Bride (Movie)
• Outlaw Ocean (CBS Podcast)

Transcript

Beth: Welcome to the Social Profs Podcast with your hosts Beth Torrens and Kristy Buccieri. This is the podcast where we attempt to turn teaching inside out by engaging in conversations outside the classroom with faculty, community members, and Trent student alumni. Our goals with these conversations are to learn more about the benefits of a criminology or sociology degree and to talk about the ways that students can get more involved at Trent and in the community. We will also do a deep dive with some Trent professors to learn more about their approaches to teaching, what drives their research, and a few fun facts you can only learn when you turn teaching inside out.

Kristy: Today we sit down with Dr. Stephanie Ehret, assistant professor of criminology at Trent University whose research examines interactions between autistic people and the police. We talk with her about her research interests. The influence that Barbara Hudson has had on shaping her work, value of spending quiet time on a good paint by number and why justice is not limited to the courtroom. Stephanie thank you for joining us, where are wondering what is the one burning question that drives your research and what got you interested in trying to answer it?

Stephanie: It’s hard to narrow it down to just one burning question. But if I had to, broadly speaking, I would ask, how can we do justice better? Meaning smarter with less law and using more social bonds and cohesiveness. What got me interested in this is just seeing how there’s so much injustice in society broadly, but also within the criminal justice system, how so many changes are needed. We can do things better. We can do them smarter. I’m not saying we don’t need police. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be corrections, but we’re over-reliant on it, on the system as a whole. And we can do it smarter. We just need to put our heads together and figure it out.

Beth: So, if I can follow up to that, Stephanie, what does that kind of look like? Or how does that relate to what you’re currently working on?

Stephanie: So, what that looks like to me. Is first looking at the issue of justice, and what justice this means and how it can be done. And we tend, in our society, we tend to look to the criminal justice system, thinking that is the place for justice, but it doesn’t have to be. It can be done through social interventions and other means that are more reparative sometimes or other ways of dealing with the issues. Not to say there shouldn’t be consequences, but we can do it better. And so, I, in my research where I’ve looked particularly is at the experience, the people who have experienced the harms, looking at sexual violence and intimate partner violence specifically and speaking with the people who’ve experienced it and asking them, what does justice look like for you? And for some of them, it is the criminal justice system. They’ve gone through that. And then for others, they haven’t. And they’ve sought a sense of justice, whatever that means for them. That could be safety. It could be a sense of validation and recognition for what they’ve gone through, what that looks like for them. And seeing how we can implement that in society, whether that’s through policy or through other mechanisms, more maybe even grassroots, innovative approaches. So, I’ve done that already with intimate partner violence speaking with survivors. And I’m currently actually doing a research project with autistic adults. And we just, we’ve finished up collecting the data and we’re at the point now where we’re disseminating our findings and we wanted to find, it’s an area that’s really under-researched, but I know anecdotally that when autistic people encounter the criminal justice system, there can be many challenges. They’re more likely to encounter it in the first place, not due to criminal behavior, but for a whole range of reasons, including victimization. And I wanted to find out what that looks like for them, what the experience is like and what’s working and what’s not working to get their feedback in insights. I’m just working on that now and um thinking about how, you know, thinking about what’s working, what’s not, and then how that translates into doing justice better for this particular group of people.

Beth: That’s definitely some really important and very interesting work, but it can also probably be a very heavy topic or very difficult topic for people to think about. So how do you handle teaching or sharing research findings about those kind of difficult topics that you deal with?

Stephanie: That’s a good question. It’s something that I’m still learning. I think about it a lot because I know these are the really sensitive topics are really difficult emotionally to discuss and there will always be thinking of the class within within that there may be students there who have experienced it if I’m, you know, looking at different issues, criminal harms that have happened and so I’m really I try to be mindful of that and sensitive to it and so but it’s really important that we don’t shy away from these topics otherwise we just perpetuate the silence right so I don’t shy away from them but I’m very mindful that they’re difficult to study to read about to talk about and I when I include the information in the courses I’m really mindful that’s it’s there for like a pedagogical purpose, it’s for a teaching purpose. I’m not trying to stoke controversy or just discuss violence for some sense of like macabre entertainment or something like that, but to actually look at the issues and figure out what’s happening and what can be done to actually help survivors and prevent harms, thinking not just in terms of responses, but thinking of prevention in the future and while it is difficult the topics are sensitive perpetuating the silence would also be problematic so approaching them sensitively and thinking in terms of trauma responsive approaches thinking in terms of flexibility for the material as the students go through it I try to ensure that there’s flexibility with the timing. While there’s not flexibility in terms of what topics we’re covering, they’re there in the course and they need to be covered again, not to perpetuate that silence.

But if somebody’s having a rough, a rough day, a rough week, it’s just, you know, raw material for them to raw for them to go through that day that week, I try to set the course up in a way that there’s flexibility in terms of when they approach it, and how and so in the assignments as well, I try to incorporate flexibility in what will work for them at that time so they can dive into the material when they’re ready. I encourage, and just small, I think they seem, to me they seem small, but I’m hoping they’re helpful for students. I’ve heard that they are, heard feedback that they are, but encouraging things like wellness breaks, like to me, calling it self-care sounds really neoliberal, and a little bit to self-help all that stuff that’s commodified and so on marketed. But thinking of wellness, and again, sensitive subject matter, some may have personal experiences, so encouraging the students to take wellness breaks, whatever that looks like for them, it’ll be different depending. Like for me, it’s walks outside in nature, or I like to do painting, that kind of thing. I listen to podcasts, and in full disclosure, I’m not very artistic, but I do paint by numbers between you and me. And whoever’s listening, I do paint by numbers, and I listen to podcasts, and it’s quite meditative and relaxing. So that whatever, so that’s me, but whatever it looks like for them, I try to remind them, encourage them as well.

Beth: That sounds like a really good approach for tackling those difficult topics but still integrating them into your courses and sharing that information with people. Switching topics, a little bit, uh what’s your favorite lecture or your favorite topic to cover in one of your classes? And also, what do you think a favorite topic for students is?

Stephanie: umm tough questions, so my favorite topic, I mean, sensitive one, but looking at my research area, in the past I’ve looked a lot at intimate partner violence, and as a topic to discuss in the classes, one that I like it for a few different reasons, because I think a point, one of them is it points quite clearly to the downsides of over-relying on criminal justice approaches. And that is looking at the issue of intimate partner violence and criminal justice responses to it. And I like walking the students through the history of that. Like going back to the 80s, there was a lot of really heated debates among different feminist groups and other, you know, advocacy groups on whether or not to involve criminal justice. And, you know, decades later, we can look at that and say, well, here, you know, it’s helped some people, but there’s a lot of people who it hasn’t helped. And there’s a lot of survivors who don’t benefit from criminal justice responses. They may not reach out. They may have worries about doing so. They might have a, you know, a negative history with the police and so on. There’ll be so many challenges around it. And it’s a really, although it’s sensitive, it’s a difficult topic in that respect, it’s a heavy one. It’s a really important one and also a really clear example of how we over rely on criminal justice. And so, we’re talking about, in a class, I love talking about social and creative and innovative responses in the ways of doing justice and it’s a really clear entry point for that conversation. So, I like, that’s probably my favorite, although it is heavy and sensitive.

On the lighter side, I think that topic I cover in Responding to Violence, that course, in a different course, Deviance and Social Control is another, that course is one of my favorites. And I think the students and enjoy it as well, based on the feedback I’ve heard. We talk about normative or moral boundaries that we have in society, and then the push and pull that can happen around those. When people are trying to, people like society in general, people are different lobbying groups or organizations and so on are advocating for that moral boundary to shift. And there’s a push and pull that happens in those conversations, whether they’re on media or other places. And so, we talk about different things like I introduced the course, we talk about the witch trials, we talk about prohibition, we talk about tattoos, that kind of thing. And I think that based on the feedback, I think the students enjoy those topics.

Kristy: It raises an interesting point about bringing people into conversation and perhaps people who wouldn’t normally be in the same space having conversations about shared topics. Uh, it also leads to another question we have for you, which is maybe a bit of an oddball question, but, uh, we’re wondering if you were having a dinner party and you could invite one academic, one celebrity, and two other people, any other people, politicians, activists, business people, uh, who would you invite and why?

Stephanie: A fun dinner party. I was thinking, what will I serve? I have no idea. Who would I invite? Well, is there any kind of rule that they, whether they’re still alive or, or, or not? Okay cool.

Kristy: No, let’s say you have the power to bring them back.

Stephanie: I have, I have the power to bring them back. One person I would bring back is Barbara Hudson. She was a criminologist in the UK, I believe she was based, and she’s unfortunately passed away now, but I did my, when I did my dissertation for my doctorate, I was basically for testing one aspect of her theory about restorative justice. And I always imagined sending her a copy of it and having a conversation with her. But she unfortunately passed away. It was just at the point where I was finishing my field, my fieldwork and analyzing it. And I was like, oh, it didn’t it didn’t happen. But she sounded I loved her work. It was just it’s wonderful, critical, deep thinker in criminology and criminal justice and she also sounded like she was good fun to hang out with, like I suspect we would share a couple of pints and talk about criminal justice. And I know I have a bit of flexibility with the extras. Another academic I would probably bring, and he’s also unfortunately passed away, is Nils Christie. There’s so many things I would love to discuss with him. He talked about so many things. I mean, and it’s kind of in my, my, my wheelhouse or my interest in looking at all extralegal responses or alternatives to criminal justice. But he always, he talks about things like the limits of, of pain and punishment and things like participatory justice and restorative justice. And I would really love to sit in and chat with him about these issues. Who else would I bring? Oh, sorry. What are the categories?

Kristy: You need a celebrity and one other person.

Stephanie: A celebrity. Um, I love music. I would probably bring like, maybe somebody like Loreena McKennitt or, or, or, uh, Joni Mitchell. Uh, yeah. Oh, pick Lorena, Loreena McKennitt. I love her music, admire her, her work, her worldview. Um, I like how she uses her platform that she has like, um, which also just seems very calm and, and gentle and, um, probably round out the conversation nicely.

Kristy: And now I have to know, what would you serve?

Stephanie: Oh, I have one more person I would bring Steven. Oh wait. Yeah. Steven Fry. He seems to be a good conversationalist. What would I serve? Oh gosh. Um, I would probably serve. I was like, I’m thinking steak with some nice grilled veggies and roasted potatoes or maybe just like a lasagna and salad. I’m pretty simple. Nothing fancy. Obviously, I’m not vegetarian if I’m offering them steak, but the lasagna could be vegetarian. Let’s say that.

Beth: I think we’re all headed over to your house for dinner after this.

… [Music]

Beth: All right. So, the next section are a series of rapid-fire questions that we want to ask and it’s flipping the script a bit. We’re going to put you on the hot seat and we’re going to give you a bit of a pop quiz and you don’t have to expand or elaborate on your answers. You can keep them nice and short, but we just want to get to know a little bit more about you and your interests. Are you ready?

Stephanie: I think so.

… [Music]

Beth: All right. What is your favorite memory from when you were a student?

Stephanie: Singing in the Hart House Chorus at the University of Toronto.

Beth: What’s your favorite thing to do on the weekend?

Stephanie: Go for a nice long bike ride.

Beth: As an academic what is something you can’t live without?

Stephanie: I mean my books.

Beth: Good answer. Is there a favorite TV show podcast or movie that you have?

Stephanie: Yes, movie it’s really cheesy the Princess Bride that’s from the 80s. Podcast I just listened to it not long ago it’s called the Outlaw Ocean on CBC it’s really good

Beth: what advice would you give your past student self?

Stephanie: Oh, relax one step at a time.

Kristy: If you could instantly have any skill, party trick, or talent, what would it be?

Stephanie: To be a really good singer.

Kristy: Me too. What course or subject did you not take as a student that you wish you could learn more about now?

Stephanie: Something to do with like mechanics. I wish I understood my car better and even things like bike repair. I still, I do intend to do like a little workshop on that. I want to be able to, yeah, that kind of thing.

Kristy: Who do you admire?

Stephanie: Ah, thinking of my dinner. Uh, Steven Fry.

Kristy: Cat, dog, fish, bird, or lizard?

Stephanie: Well, definitely cat.

Kristy: And lastly, if you weren’t working as an academic, what would you be doing?

Stephanie: Oh, probably working at a non-profit doing, I was going to say education, some kind of advocacy work around gender-based violence.

Kristy: We’ve been talking today with Professor Stephanie Ehret. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time.

Beth: Thanks for joining us, Stephanie.

Stephanie: my pleasure thanks for having me.

[Music]